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	<title>Comments for Citiwire.net</title>
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	<link>http://citiwire.net</link>
	<description>Our mission... to reflect a new narrative for 21st century cities and regions. Leaving behind the 20th century pattern of cheap energy, endless automobility, burgeoning suburbs, threatened inner cities. To a challenge-packed 21st century: energy prices headed north, perilous carbon emissions, deepening have-have not divisions, excruciating social problems and deep challenges in education. But a time of exciting promise, too.</description>
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		<title>Comment on Density Without High-Rises? by Neal Peirce</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/density-without-high-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-5113</link>
		<dc:creator>Neal Peirce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 16:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3402#comment-5113</guid>
		<description>Readers will find an interesting pick up by Richard Florida on Ed McMahon&#039;s article -- on the Atlantic Cities website:
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/05/limits-density/2005/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Readers will find an interesting pick up by Richard Florida on Ed McMahon&#8217;s article &#8212; on the Atlantic Cities website:<br />
<a href="http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/05/limits-density/2005/" rel="nofollow">http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/05/limits-density/2005/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Urban U.S.A. Remade: A &#8216;Grand Inversion&#8217;? by Charlie Doggett</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/urban-u-s-a-remade-a-grand-inversion/comment-page-1/#comment-5112</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie Doggett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 21:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3399#comment-5112</guid>
		<description>Great article! This inversion has definitely started in Nashville. One thing that concerns me as an older retiree who moved downtown, is lack of elder care, assisted living, etc. I have lived downtown for more than 10 years, but when I need assisted living I will be forced to go to the suburbs. Lack of planning? Too much focus on the young?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article! This inversion has definitely started in Nashville. One thing that concerns me as an older retiree who moved downtown, is lack of elder care, assisted living, etc. I have lived downtown for more than 10 years, but when I need assisted living I will be forced to go to the suburbs. Lack of planning? Too much focus on the young?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Density Without High-Rises? by Anthony Harvath</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/density-without-high-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-5111</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Harvath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 21:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3402#comment-5111</guid>
		<description>Mr. McMahon is correct that “city” densities can be achieved without high rises. But just try it. Here in Chicago we have oodles of open space that could be developed in back yards, vacant lots, in place of nondescript low-rises, parking lots…everywhere. But because of NIMBYism such space is virtually impossible to develop as McMahon envisions. He sees blaming the NIMBY’s who oppose towers as misguided—but they oppose everything!

Stating that “buildings rising from 5 to 12 stories can create even higher density” is right on…but runs counter to zoning in all but the most central neighborhoods of American cities, including Chicago. So, if a developer must fight for a variance, it makes much more sense to do so for a megaproject than for a mid-rise. 

Unfortunately, McMahon doesn’t address the real problem in urban development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. McMahon is correct that “city” densities can be achieved without high rises. But just try it. Here in Chicago we have oodles of open space that could be developed in back yards, vacant lots, in place of nondescript low-rises, parking lots…everywhere. But because of NIMBYism such space is virtually impossible to develop as McMahon envisions. He sees blaming the NIMBY’s who oppose towers as misguided—but they oppose everything!</p>
<p>Stating that “buildings rising from 5 to 12 stories can create even higher density” is right on…but runs counter to zoning in all but the most central neighborhoods of American cities, including Chicago. So, if a developer must fight for a variance, it makes much more sense to do so for a megaproject than for a mid-rise. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, McMahon doesn’t address the real problem in urban development.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Density Without High-Rises? by Eric Panzer</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/density-without-high-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-5108</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Panzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 18:36:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3402#comment-5108</guid>
		<description>I think that it is nearly always a mistake to adopt a one-size-fits-all approach. I think there are places where humanely designed high-rises make a great deal of sense and can contribute to a unique sense of place. Vancouver has done wonder with standards for slender, well-spaced towers built over low- to mid-rise podiums. Vancouver has remained North America&#039;s most livable city, even as it has created an incredibly urban neighborhood and a bold, futuristic skyline.

Yet there are also places where we should arguably not be seeking similar high-rise density. New Orleans&#039;s  French Quarter is a great example. A historic neighborhood like San Francisco&#039;s North Beach may be another.

Part of the problem, though, is that planners have become so constrained in terms of where even three or four story buildings are permitted, that sometimes it is all but necessary to put high-rises in certain strategic locations. It would be great if everywhere within 0.5-mile of a transit station could be zoned for 4–6 story buildings, but this is simply not realistic. Until more neighborhoods welcome low-rise density into their midst, strategic high-rise density will remain an important tool for achieving desired transit and sustainability outcomes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that it is nearly always a mistake to adopt a one-size-fits-all approach. I think there are places where humanely designed high-rises make a great deal of sense and can contribute to a unique sense of place. Vancouver has done wonder with standards for slender, well-spaced towers built over low- to mid-rise podiums. Vancouver has remained North America&#8217;s most livable city, even as it has created an incredibly urban neighborhood and a bold, futuristic skyline.</p>
<p>Yet there are also places where we should arguably not be seeking similar high-rise density. New Orleans&#8217;s  French Quarter is a great example. A historic neighborhood like San Francisco&#8217;s North Beach may be another.</p>
<p>Part of the problem, though, is that planners have become so constrained in terms of where even three or four story buildings are permitted, that sometimes it is all but necessary to put high-rises in certain strategic locations. It would be great if everywhere within 0.5-mile of a transit station could be zoned for 4–6 story buildings, but this is simply not realistic. Until more neighborhoods welcome low-rise density into their midst, strategic high-rise density will remain an important tool for achieving desired transit and sustainability outcomes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Density Without High-Rises? by Danny Handelman</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/density-without-high-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-5107</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Handelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 17:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3402#comment-5107</guid>
		<description>Higher density dwelling units does not necessarily result in smaller dwelling units; it reflects, in part, the fact that zoning, impact fees and property taxes combine to make it more profitable for builders to build outward rather than upward, resulting in demand to live close to amenities being greater than the supply. The segregation of uses also results in higher transportation costs, and places the burden of municipal finance disproportionately on residents, rather than the businesses, because there are comparatively few commercial purposes, reducing the number of businesses, even though businesses have a greater ability to pay property taxes than residents, in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Higher density dwelling units does not necessarily result in smaller dwelling units; it reflects, in part, the fact that zoning, impact fees and property taxes combine to make it more profitable for builders to build outward rather than upward, resulting in demand to live close to amenities being greater than the supply. The segregation of uses also results in higher transportation costs, and places the burden of municipal finance disproportionately on residents, rather than the businesses, because there are comparatively few commercial purposes, reducing the number of businesses, even though businesses have a greater ability to pay property taxes than residents, in general.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Density Without High-Rises? by Michael Lewyn</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/density-without-high-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-5106</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Lewyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3402#comment-5106</guid>
		<description>As I understand McMahon&#039;s argument, it is: 
1.  Some places are dense and don&#039;t have high-rises.  Therefore
2.  No one should be allowed to build anything higher than the typical DC 5-10 story office building, because
3.  If anything taller than 10 stories is ever built, the city will be taken over by &quot;high-rise mania.&quot;
I fail to see why conclusion 2 or conclusion 3 follows from premise 1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I understand McMahon&#8217;s argument, it is:<br />
1.  Some places are dense and don&#8217;t have high-rises.  Therefore<br />
2.  No one should be allowed to build anything higher than the typical DC 5-10 story office building, because<br />
3.  If anything taller than 10 stories is ever built, the city will be taken over by &#8220;high-rise mania.&#8221;<br />
I fail to see why conclusion 2 or conclusion 3 follows from premise 1.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Density Without High-Rises? by Mark Loeb</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/density-without-high-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-5105</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Loeb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 12:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3402#comment-5105</guid>
		<description>I appreciate McMahon&#039;s thought-provoking articles. The first question that came to mind when reading this one was, are we entering a neo-Corbusier era where cities are &quot;machines for living&quot;? Our headlong rush into techno-triumphalism (as Kustler calls it) is potentially dehumanizing the human habitat. McMahon&#039;s is a cautionary warning.

But more to the point of the article it the false choice of late 20th Century development between sprawl and urban. The sweet spot is in between. The low-rise, dense, walkable districts that McMahon describes have weathered the real estate storm remarkably well. In addition, consumer sentiment (RCLCO) suggest that there is a high affinity for these types of places. Thus the market has spoken in their favor. The vexing question is why haven&#039;t developers and builder responded?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I appreciate McMahon&#8217;s thought-provoking articles. The first question that came to mind when reading this one was, are we entering a neo-Corbusier era where cities are &#8220;machines for living&#8221;? Our headlong rush into techno-triumphalism (as Kustler calls it) is potentially dehumanizing the human habitat. McMahon&#8217;s is a cautionary warning.</p>
<p>But more to the point of the article it the false choice of late 20th Century development between sprawl and urban. The sweet spot is in between. The low-rise, dense, walkable districts that McMahon describes have weathered the real estate storm remarkably well. In addition, consumer sentiment (RCLCO) suggest that there is a high affinity for these types of places. Thus the market has spoken in their favor. The vexing question is why haven&#8217;t developers and builder responded?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Density Without High-Rises? by Mike Conte</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/density-without-high-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-5104</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Conte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 11:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3402#comment-5104</guid>
		<description>Agree.

And Paris has higher density than NYC, but with almost no buildings taller than 6 stories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agree.</p>
<p>And Paris has higher density than NYC, but with almost no buildings taller than 6 stories.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Urban U.S.A. Remade: A &#8216;Grand Inversion&#8217;? by Ellen McCarthy</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/urban-u-s-a-remade-a-grand-inversion/comment-page-1/#comment-5102</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellen McCarthy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2012 05:01:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3399#comment-5102</guid>
		<description>Karen Schoen -

You&#039;re kidding, right?  

Young people want to live in cities because cities are far superior.  They have a choice between suburbs like those in which they grew up, spending hours a day in a car while mom schlepped one sibling to gymnastics, later another to Girl Scouts, to the grocery store (in fact, anywhere that one needed to go, since it was not possible to walk or bike anywhere), or they can  live in a city where there are restaurants, clubs, bars, bakeries, yoga studios and gyms, art museums, shops -- all within an easy walk or bike.  Getting to work in cities is also simple, using transit, walking or biking, without having to worry that gas is topping $4.50 per gallon.  Streets are safe because there are so many other people using them, and residents keep an eye out for those passing by.  Schools are improving dramatically, with the added plus of students enjoying the benefits of learning in a culturally diverse environment.  

Your comment about transit is bafflling -- no transit pays for itself out of the farebox, which makes sense because it is a public benefit.  In addition, the phenomenal growth of car sharing makes it possible for city residents to easily access a car when they need it, without having to worry about car payments, insurance or the cost of parking.  Since young people are more interested in hanging out in &quot;third places&quot;, they are willing to trade off more space for the convenience and desirability of living in the city.  College graduates are 91% more likely to live in a city or a close-in suburb, NOT because anyone is forcing them, but because they recognize the value of living in lively, vibrant places.  
Try it sometime....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Karen Schoen -</p>
<p>You&#8217;re kidding, right?  </p>
<p>Young people want to live in cities because cities are far superior.  They have a choice between suburbs like those in which they grew up, spending hours a day in a car while mom schlepped one sibling to gymnastics, later another to Girl Scouts, to the grocery store (in fact, anywhere that one needed to go, since it was not possible to walk or bike anywhere), or they can  live in a city where there are restaurants, clubs, bars, bakeries, yoga studios and gyms, art museums, shops &#8212; all within an easy walk or bike.  Getting to work in cities is also simple, using transit, walking or biking, without having to worry that gas is topping $4.50 per gallon.  Streets are safe because there are so many other people using them, and residents keep an eye out for those passing by.  Schools are improving dramatically, with the added plus of students enjoying the benefits of learning in a culturally diverse environment.  </p>
<p>Your comment about transit is bafflling &#8212; no transit pays for itself out of the farebox, which makes sense because it is a public benefit.  In addition, the phenomenal growth of car sharing makes it possible for city residents to easily access a car when they need it, without having to worry about car payments, insurance or the cost of parking.  Since young people are more interested in hanging out in &#8220;third places&#8221;, they are willing to trade off more space for the convenience and desirability of living in the city.  College graduates are 91% more likely to live in a city or a close-in suburb, NOT because anyone is forcing them, but because they recognize the value of living in lively, vibrant places.<br />
Try it sometime&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Density Without High-Rises? by Allen E Neyman</title>
		<link>http://citiwire.net/columns/density-without-high-rises/comment-page-1/#comment-5101</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen E Neyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 15:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citiwire.net/?p=3402#comment-5101</guid>
		<description>The proponents of the move back to cities are enabled by a high rise vision as well as a high ROI.  Discourse on the subject touts sustainable advantages of transit oriented development (TOD) placing the developments in cities or in fringe suburban centers lucky to have a few rail stops. There is much of value in the movement, there are many more forces that require new choices,  but, what no one is talking about is the cost.  The theory tested that more units per acre achieves economy is dramatically disproven by the exigencies of development cost - everything from the cost of land land to the support services is greater as the locus of activity competes in a more finite area. This does not take into account the concomitant change in accomodation - fewer windows, potentially less privacy,  no yard for pet or garden, no sunlight at all on the north face. Admittedly, lifestyle preferences of another generation include and exclude differences. However unpopular  conventional family life, it may yet persist for those with children. A townhouse scenario might provide real home for families of the future, but the costs for these in the HD neighborhoods are prohibitive - your (tiny) entry level townhouse in Georgetown starts at $1 million, or to replace the 2,500 square foot house and yard in the nearby burbs with a townhouse, $2.5 million!  Better options in other cities, sure, but in all areas the miserable burbs still seem to score higher on the value scale, if affordability still has a place in value assessment. Nothing can beat living and working nearby, but that is a paradigm still not solved by density of development. The beauty of urban dwelling, on the other hand, being on top of all the amenities, is a delight, when you can afford it. But the choice of many will remain in prototypes other than what is achievable in denser cities or TOD&#039;s. Affordability will continue to dictate many of those choices. where  .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The proponents of the move back to cities are enabled by a high rise vision as well as a high ROI.  Discourse on the subject touts sustainable advantages of transit oriented development (TOD) placing the developments in cities or in fringe suburban centers lucky to have a few rail stops. There is much of value in the movement, there are many more forces that require new choices,  but, what no one is talking about is the cost.  The theory tested that more units per acre achieves economy is dramatically disproven by the exigencies of development cost &#8211; everything from the cost of land land to the support services is greater as the locus of activity competes in a more finite area. This does not take into account the concomitant change in accomodation &#8211; fewer windows, potentially less privacy,  no yard for pet or garden, no sunlight at all on the north face. Admittedly, lifestyle preferences of another generation include and exclude differences. However unpopular  conventional family life, it may yet persist for those with children. A townhouse scenario might provide real home for families of the future, but the costs for these in the HD neighborhoods are prohibitive &#8211; your (tiny) entry level townhouse in Georgetown starts at $1 million, or to replace the 2,500 square foot house and yard in the nearby burbs with a townhouse, $2.5 million!  Better options in other cities, sure, but in all areas the miserable burbs still seem to score higher on the value scale, if affordability still has a place in value assessment. Nothing can beat living and working nearby, but that is a paradigm still not solved by density of development. The beauty of urban dwelling, on the other hand, being on top of all the amenities, is a delight, when you can afford it. But the choice of many will remain in prototypes other than what is achievable in denser cities or TOD&#8217;s. Affordability will continue to dictate many of those choices. where  .</p>
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